Discussion:
Hexavalent Chromium concerns re/ electrolysis...
(too old to reply)
Hylourgos
2004-02-02 19:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I'm a woodworker who would like to know more about a chemical
question:

Electrolysis is popular among woodworkers for removing rust from old
tools. Some of us use Stainless Steel as a conductor in the process,
but one site describing the process claimed that it produces Chromium
Hexavalent, so we shouldn't do that. His site, which describes the
process and has the warning, is at:
http://www.oldengine.org/members/billd/electrol.htm

As one woodworker noted, getting your chemical advice from
oldengine.org is a dubious endeavor, so I'm asking here in this forum
if anyone can confirm or deny the danger.

Thanks,
H
hanson
2004-02-02 20:42:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hylourgos
Hi,
I'm a woodworker who would like to know more about a chemical
Electrolysis is popular among woodworkers for removing rust from old
tools. Some of us use Stainless Steel as a conductor in the process,
but one site describing the process claimed that it produces Chromium
Hexavalent, so we shouldn't do that. His site, which describes the
http://www.oldengine.org/members/billd/electrol.htm
As one woodworker noted, getting your chemical advice from
oldengine.org is a dubious endeavor, so I'm asking here in this
forum if anyone can confirm or deny the danger.
Thanks,
H
hahahahahaha.........so, the enviros scared the green shit out
of you, huh. Listen, the worst thing that is gonna happen to you
with a set up like that is that the Laundry Soda which may be
Soda ash (Na2CO3) may splash into your eyes and burn like hell
and the fumes may make you cough.
(AFAIK Arm & Hammer's Soda maybe even just Baking Soda, the
stuff they put into Alka-Seltzer)

Your worries about Chromate production is unfounded, but is typical
Brokobitch yellow green shit hype. The quantities you produce are
so minimal that you have to drink a five gallon bucket of your cleaning
juice daily for years and years until you'd get any reaction from CrO4,
long, long after you'd have died of alkalosis from the Laundry Soda.

Don't believe me, but go to any plating or metal finishing shop and
ask them how many or whether they had any CrO4 problems with
electro cleaning in the past 20, 50 or 100 years. You may find that
one totally drunken plater in the entire world during the last century
may have fallen into the tank and drowned. Otherwise: NOTHING!

What you should worry about is that you have to report that you own
and operate such an electro cleaning process, whether you use SS or
not. -- The regulators from a bunch of green shit agencies (air, sewer,
fire, enviro and safety) will descend onto you and demand permit
charges and user fees from you, that will amount to a few thousand
bucks each year, plus the cost of getting your sewer (effluent) analyzed
at least every 90 days, not to mention the disposal costs.

Enjoy your wood working and the wonders of chemistry and fuck eviros!
ahahahahaha........ahahahahanson
Hylourgos
2004-02-03 02:23:24 UTC
Permalink
"hanson" <***@quick.net> wrote in message news:<1DyTb.9051$***@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
<snip>
Post by hanson
hahahahahaha.........so, the enviros scared the green shit out
of you, huh.
Yeah, those guys at oldengines.org are known for their
enviroterrorism...you got them up against the wall now. Just keep
punchin', slugger.
Post by hanson
Listen, the worst thing that is gonna happen to you
with a set up like that is ...<snip assertions>...
Your worries about Chromate production is unfounded, but is typical
Brokobitch yellow green shit hype.
Kiefer, is that you? Sorry about Julia, man.....
Post by hanson
The quantities you produce are
so minimal that you have to drink a five gallon bucket of your cleaning
juice daily for years and years until you'd get any reaction from CrO4,
long, long after you'd have died of alkalosis from the Laundry Soda.
OK, some data finally. Where did you come up with this? Is it just a
guess based on your experience, or is it derived from something you've
read? What?
Post by hanson
Don't believe me,
You make that easy, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the
doubt. Tell me more.
Post by hanson
but go to any plating or metal finishing shop and
ask them how many or whether they had any CrO4 problems with
electro cleaning in the past 20, 50 or 100 years. You may find that
one totally drunken plater in the entire world during the last century
may have fallen into the tank and drowned. Otherwise: NOTHING!
I'm just a woodworker, but is that good scientific method--going
around canvassing plating shops? Is there no data on 1) the quantities
of Cr+6 produced in electroysis and 2) the dangers of Cr+6, with
quantities given, to electrolysis users and the groundwater where they
dump it?

FWW, similar things were said to coal miners and their families, dry
cleaners, and so on. Dont' get me wrong, it's a nice assertion, as
assertions go, but should I be comfortable with the evidence offered?

<snip warnings about gummint intrusions>
Post by hanson
Enjoy your wood working and the wonders of chemistry and fuck eviros!
ahahahahaha........ahahahahanson
I shall, and with more confidence sir. Now all that remains for me is
to consult alt.puppies.org for confirmation. Second opinions and all.

OK, seriously, thanks for your opinion, but I am also interested if
you have experience with this. Are you a chemist? Where did you get
your degree and where are you working?

Regards,
H.
Steve Turner
2004-02-03 03:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hylourgos
<snip>
Post by hanson
hahahahahaha.........so, the enviros scared the green shit out
of you, huh.
Yeah, those guys at oldengines.org are known for their
enviroterrorism...you got them up against the wall now. Just keep
punchin', slugger.
Don't mind hanson .. he gives that stuff to everyone. FWIW, I think
his advice in this case is pretty much on the money. Also FWIW, he's
either a chemist or a damned good imitator, but his tolerance for
environmental extremism is in the negative range. Or maybe that was
obvious... :)

Steve Turner
hanson
2004-02-03 04:07:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Turner
Post by Hylourgos
<snip>
Post by hanson
hahahahahaha.........so, the enviros scared the green shit out
of you, huh.
Yeah, those guys at oldengines.org are known for their
enviroterrorism...you got them up against the wall now. Just keep
punchin', slugger.
Don't mind hanson .. he gives that stuff to everyone. FWIW, I think
his advice in this case is pretty much on the money. Also FWIW, he's
either a chemist or a damned good imitator, but his tolerance for
environmental extremism is in the negative range. Or maybe that was
obvious... :)
Steve Turner
AHahahhahahaha........ahahahahaha......
Thanks for the plug, Steve.
ahahahaha........ahahahanson
hanson
2004-02-03 04:02:15 UTC
Permalink
"Hylourgos" <***@sewanee.edu> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...

Yo, William D. Seavey, Professor at the University of the South
you are anything but "just a woodworker". Listen, my dear colleague,
read what "Muhammar" <***@hotmail.com> posted in message news:***@posting.google.com...: A-OK!
and AFA who and what I am is immaterial. I give my opinions in/at
this here 24/7 quite mad cyber party ....because it is fun for me to do
so, in the joy and hope to give a hand to someone, somewhere.
You don't have to believe me. So, take it or leave it. It's free.
I am not out to scare the shit out of people and charge them with
permit costs and user fees. That is what enviro turds do.
Anyway, my friend, thanks for your post.
hanson

PS: I am sorry to note that your faculty bros and sis do all have
acumens that are tainted quite green. So getting "REAL world"
info from them may be impossible. Therefore, Bill, reconsider
... is that good scientific method--
going round canvassing plating shops?
That is far better a method then any "scientific" method! Where do
you think that the green scientists got their data from in the 1st place?
Platers are the people who hang around the stuff you worry about all
their lives. Go ask those old timers. See and hear it with your own
eyes and ears. They will be delighted to share their experiences with you.
They'll give you hints of how to do it like the professionals and if you take
your dirty tools along they may even clean them for you in a demo
for free.
Platers, like all folks who work with their hands, are great & lovely people.
Take care, Bill, have fun.
hanson
<snip>
Post by hanson
hahahahahaha.........so, the enviros scared the green shit out
of you, huh.
Yeah, those guys at oldengines.org are known for their
enviroterrorism...you got them up against the wall now. Just keep
punchin', slugger.
Post by hanson
Listen, the worst thing that is gonna happen to you
with a set up like that is ...<snip assertions>...
Your worries about Chromate production is unfounded, but is typical
Brokobitch yellow green shit hype.
Kiefer, is that you? Sorry about Julia, man.....
Post by hanson
The quantities you produce are
so minimal that you have to drink a five gallon bucket of your cleaning
juice daily for years and years until you'd get any reaction from CrO4,
long, long after you'd have died of alkalosis from the Laundry Soda.
OK, some data finally. Where did you come up with this? Is it just a
guess based on your experience, or is it derived from something you've
read? What?
Post by hanson
Don't believe me,
You make that easy, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the
doubt. Tell me more.
Post by hanson
but go to any plating or metal finishing shop and
ask them how many or whether they had any CrO4 problems with
electro cleaning in the past 20, 50 or 100 years. You may find that
one totally drunken plater in the entire world during the last century
may have fallen into the tank and drowned. Otherwise: NOTHING!
I'm just a woodworker, but is that good scientific method--going
around canvassing plating shops? Is there no data on 1) the quantities
of Cr+6 produced in electroysis and 2) the dangers of Cr+6, with
quantities given, to electrolysis users and the groundwater where they
dump it?
FWW, similar things were said to coal miners and their families, dry
cleaners, and so on. Dont' get me wrong, it's a nice assertion, as
assertions go, but should I be comfortable with the evidence offered?
<snip warnings about gummint intrusions>
Post by hanson
Enjoy your wood working and the wonders of chemistry and fuck eviros!
ahahahahaha........ahahahahanson
I shall, and with more confidence sir. Now all that remains for me is
to consult alt.puppies.org for confirmation. Second opinions and all.
OK, seriously, thanks for your opinion, but I am also interested if
you have experience with this. Are you a chemist? Where did you get
your degree and where are you working?
Regards,
H.
Hylourgos
2004-02-04 05:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi hanson,

And thanks for your pleasant exchange. Yes, I am a professor, but when
it comes to matters of chemistry, I'm no more adept than even the
lowliest of woodmanglers. You see, I teach (confessional drum roll
please)...Latin and Greek. Which means of course that I've studiously
avoided all matters involving math and science. Not really, but it
feels that way whenever I make a foray into those disciplines. It is
out of respect for those who have paid their math and science dues
that I question anyone's answers that seem short on evidence.

You come well recommended in this thread, however, and the other
respondents have given much the same answer in substance (though not
in colorful sidebars).

"hanson" <***@quick.net> wrote in message news:<b3FTb.9613$***@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...

<snip>
Post by hanson
PS: I am sorry to note that your faculty bros and sis do all have
acumens that are tainted quite green.
I have no idea what this means. What's an acumen?
Post by hanson
... is that good scientific method--
going round canvassing plating shops?
That is far better a method then any "scientific" method! Where do
you think that the green scientists got their data from in the 1st place?
They would be an excellent source, true, but I would expect a
scientific study of them to include questions and testing that are far
beyond my ken.
Post by hanson
Platers are the people who hang around the stuff you worry about all
their lives. Go ask those old timers. See and hear it with your own
eyes and ears. They will be delighted to share their experiences with you.
Yes, but will they necessarily know the difficulties? Most working
class professions included practices 100 yrs ago that no sane person
would do today. I'd rather be a bit cautious...
Post by hanson
They'll give you hints of how to do it like the professionals and if you take
your dirty tools along they may even clean them for you in a demo
for free.
Probably. But I'm doing it successfully now. I just want to know if I
should use my rebar or my SS flexible tubing.
Post by hanson
Platers, like all folks who work with their hands, are great & lovely people.
I'll be they are. Both of my parents barely got their HS diplomas, and
when I graduated from HS I had no intention of going to college. Blue
collar to the bone.
Post by hanson
Take care, Bill, have fun.
hanson
<snip>

You too hanson, and don't terrorize those poor greenies so much.

Regards,
H.
hanson
2004-02-04 06:36:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hylourgos
Post by hanson
Take care, Bill, have fun.
hanson
<snip>
Hi hanson
You too hanson, and don't terrorize those poor greenies so much.
Regards,
H.
Terrorise ?....me? .....nahhhh.....I wouldnt' think of it, dude.
But, as far as greenies are concerned you should be aware that
they are anything but poor. Let me lay out the facts of green life
for you and then you may understand where I am coming from, Bill.

Everything that needs to be said about the issue is condensed in here:

Nowadays the enviros certainly do have problems, it seems... but then,
the greenies had this coming,
a) because the people caught onto their game of green turdry, that

=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, ===
=== without any redeeming value, nor any intent to save anything. This ==
=== scam has come to an end. Now, all the green shits are whining... ===

...to boot, "environment" was not mentioned at all in Bush's 2004 State
of the Union, and NEITHER was there any mention of it in the rebuttals
by the democrats.

b) because it was doomed from the outset by top "executive" advice
like the following

-----***** start: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

"We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic
statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have.
Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being
effective and being honest."
- Stephen Schneider (Stanford professor who first sought fame as
a global cooler, but has now hit the big time as a global warmer)

"It doesn't matter what is true ... it only matters what
people believe is true ... You are what the media define you to be.
Greenpeace became a myth, and a myth-generating machine."
-- Paul Watson, co/founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepard

"If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it
up on the spot ... for the mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant."
-- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's Guide to Strategy.

"A lot of environmental messages are simply not accurate. But
that's the way we sell messages in this society. We use hype."
-- Dr. Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, Univ.of Washington

"We already have too much economic growth in the United States.
Economic growth in rich countries like ours is the disease, not the cure."
-- Paul Elrich, Stanford U biologist and Advisor to Vice President Gore

"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no
scientific evidence to back the greenhouse effect."
-- Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working
on assignment for the Conservation Foundation

"We in the Green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which
the killing of a forest will be considered more contemptible and more
criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels."
-- Carl Amery, Green Party of West Germany

"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds,
I should go out and shoot the kids who shoot birds."
-- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd

-----***** end: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----

=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, ===
=== without any redeeming value, nor any intent to save anything. This ==
=== scam has come to an end. Now, all the green shits are whining... ===

Why should anyone be surprised? The green movement was always
and exclusively a machination and a cover to get grants, permit charges
& user fees for the green shits, be they consultants, activists or regulators.

**********************************************

'nuff said, Bill?................

One of the sickest effects of green turdism is that none of their
accused and cursed polluting chemicals was taken off the market.
NOT ONE. All these green turds did is tax it and pocket the proceeds.
Here's 1 out of 100'000 of examples: MEK, Butyl acetate etc, you could
buy for 50-75 cents a gallon. Then came the green shits and said
that it causes ozone and cancer and makes your peepee fall off, etc.
They followed up, NOT with a ban, but allowed unrestricted further use
if after instituting green regulations you paid them permit costs and
user fees and the greenies really did not care at all whether ozone was
produced, nor cancers occurred or your member fell off and gummed up
the works.......as long as they got the proceeds from the permit charges
and user fees from the chems, which resulted in the current price of a
gallon MEK or Butyl acetate to be around $7.50 -10 dollars in the hardware
store. .......Environment? ....what environment?.... their new $ 400 million
office building that looks like the TajMahal? Their $ 250'000 top goon
salary with a 80% retirement pension......smog?....what smog?... who cares?

But it gets worse. Now, the green turds have discovered a new field
to profit from: Taxing information on websites under the guise of
home land security. Check the thread "nerv gas" of a few days ago,
in this NG, then see for yourself how that sly scheme is supposed to
work. Don't come back and cry when your have to pay a green safety
access fee if you wish to log onto a now still free web site. Don't worry,
ALL the information currently available will still be there, except you'll
have to pay permit charges and user fees. .....Information...
what information.....just like the "environment"............

Environmental turdism runs across and far, far beyond political and
ideological party lines. The right wing, conservatives, have an equal
if not bigger number of green turds amongst them, then the lefties do.
Turdism/Turdry begins when principally noble ideas are exploited for
personal gain. The perversion of the noble goals begins as soon as
the old adage to riches is introduced and applied:
********* "Find a need and fill it" *********
Modern, current turdism is so vile because the bastards, the green shits
expanded it successfully into
********* "Create a fear and feed off it". *********


Expose the green turds and fight back now!

Take care, Bill, and best regards,
hanson
Hylourgos
2004-02-04 15:24:00 UTC
Permalink
OK, just to be sure I've got this straight: you're against enviros,
right?

Just teasin....

Can't say I blame you, but aren't there many out there who have not
lost the "principally noble ideas" in exchange "for personal gain"?

We see the wacko's predominating in the media because that's what the
TV likes (and in that respect your enviro quotes are correct about the
media), but I'm hoping that there are plenty of cooler more
experienced heads out there. Maybe I'm overly optimistic.

Enjoy your MEK
H

...with apologies to all other readers of this NG if I've unleashed
the hansonator with facetious-provocative questions.


"hanson" <***@quick.net> wrote in message news:<np0Ub.11437$***@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
<snip>
hanson
2004-02-04 16:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hylourgos
OK, just to be sure I've got this straight: you're against enviros,
right?
Just teasin....
Enjoy your MEK
H
Ahahahahahha.......ahahahaha......ahahahaha.......
I like you. Humor must remain, even in the vilest debates.
Post by Hylourgos
...with apologies to all other readers of this NG if I've unleashed
the hansonator with facetious-provocative questions.
No apologies needed, man. Don't turn off or hide your light, Bill.
I hope you have unleashed an issue that will finally expose the
true nature of environmentalism with its motivating green turdism.
I hope that all the well meaning little green idiots do realize that
they fell victim to a gigantic, historic jerk-off and that they were
and are unwitting enablers to a vast institutionalized criminal
enterprise known as environmentalism.

Many have felt the impact of green turdsim and suffer(ed) in silence,
when no raises came, no bonuses arrived, but saw all the rewards
of their hard word flow into the deep pockets of green turds who
collected permit charges and user fees. Few if any such productive
employees w/could do anything when they lost their jobs, because
biz simply went to China and India etc. It affected not only chem.
workers....the ripple effect into other professions is like a pandemic.
But almost all were too scared and too afraid to say anything
politically incorrect.
Time has come to speak up ---- or continue to safffaaaahhhhh..........
Post by Hylourgos
<snip>
The whole rant is in there. I said "rant". Now smile, read it and think!
Then enjoy chemistry and fuck enviros!
ahahahaha.......ahahahahanson
Muhammar
2004-02-03 02:55:39 UTC
Permalink
(CrO4)2- is not very healthy but it is not *that* horrible. And you
may produce only traces of it.

Chromate poisoning happened in cases when chemical plants and power
plants were releasing many kilos or even tonns of this stuff into
rivers or groundwater and somebody was drinking it over long period of
time and the chromates slowly accumulated in his bones and increased
chances of bone cancer.
And, at the beginning of century people were even coloring
confectionary with "chrome yellow" toxic pigment. So Cr(VI) got bit
notorious reputation. But it is not a big deal in the case you
described.

What you should do is to dispose the washes and the spent bath
solution from electrolysis as aqueous hazardous waste contaminated
with chromium and nickel. I am sure some company would take it from
you, for a fee. You can call some company doing chrome plating or
metal etching and ask them how they dispose their waste.

There may be some regulatory bullsh*t involved, paperwork, designated
waste containers and waste-storage area, etc but I believe it is not
as difficult. If you ever get asked what kind of waste you would be
producing, make clear that it is only couple of galons of diluted
nonflamable aqueous solution containing only traces of Nickel and
Chromium and Iron salts.

Also, you can use some alloy that has no chromiun in it as the anode
for the electrolysis.
Post by hanson
Post by Hylourgos
Hi,
I'm a woodworker who would like to know more about a chemical
Electrolysis is popular among woodworkers for removing rust from old
tools. Some of us use Stainless Steel as a conductor in the process,
but one site describing the process claimed that it produces Chromium
Hexavalent, so we shouldn't do that. His site, which describes the
http://www.oldengine.org/members/billd/electrol.htm
As one woodworker noted, getting your chemical advice from
oldengine.org is a dubious endeavor, so I'm asking here in this
forum if anyone can confirm or deny the danger.
Thanks,
H
hahahahahaha.........so, the enviros scared the green shit out
of you, huh. Listen, the worst thing that is gonna happen to you
with a set up like that is that the Laundry Soda which may be
Soda ash (Na2CO3) may splash into your eyes and burn like hell
and the fumes may make you cough.
(AFAIK Arm & Hammer's Soda maybe even just Baking Soda, the
stuff they put into Alka-Seltzer)
Your worries about Chromate production is unfounded, but is typical
Brokobitch yellow green shit hype. The quantities you produce are
so minimal that you have to drink a five gallon bucket of your cleaning
juice daily for years and years until you'd get any reaction from CrO4,
long, long after you'd have died of alkalosis from the Laundry Soda.
Don't believe me, but go to any plating or metal finishing shop and
ask them how many or whether they had any CrO4 problems with
electro cleaning in the past 20, 50 or 100 years. You may find that
one totally drunken plater in the entire world during the last century
may have fallen into the tank and drowned. Otherwise: NOTHING!
What you should worry about is that you have to report that you own
and operate such an electro cleaning process, whether you use SS or
not. -- The regulators from a bunch of green shit agencies (air, sewer,
fire, enviro and safety) will descend onto you and demand permit
charges and user fees from you, that will amount to a few thousand
bucks each year, plus the cost of getting your sewer (effluent) analyzed
at least every 90 days, not to mention the disposal costs.
Enjoy your wood working and the wonders of chemistry and fuck eviros!
ahahahahaha........ahahahahanson
Sharon
2004-02-03 03:40:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Muhammar
(CrO4)2- is not very healthy but it is not *that* horrible. And you
may produce only traces of it.
What you should do is to dispose the washes and the spent bath
solution from electrolysis as aqueous hazardous waste contaminated
with chromium and nickel. I am sure some company would take it from
you, for a fee. You can call some company doing chrome plating or
metal etching and ask them how they dispose their waste.
You can evaporate away the water and have a very small amount of waste.
Post by Muhammar
There may be some regulatory bullsh*t involved, paperwork, designated
waste containers and waste-storage area, etc but I believe it is not
as difficult. If you ever get asked what kind of waste you would be
producing, make clear that it is only couple of galons of diluted
nonflamable aqueous solution containing only traces of Nickel and
Chromium and Iron salts.
Also, you can use some alloy that has no chromiun in it as the anode
for the electrolysis.
Would not the work piece be the anode and the SS be a cathode for
electrocleaning? No Cr ions formed.

Tom
Hylourgos
2004-02-04 05:31:16 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Muhammar,

You know, even if it's not that much damage or not so toxic, seems
like so small an advantage for me to use SS instead of rebar. So I'll
do the easy thing and stay with the rebar. Everyone's happy that way.

Regards,
H.
Post by Muhammar
(CrO4)2- is not very healthy but it is not *that* horrible. And you
may produce only traces of it.
Chromate poisoning happened in cases when chemical plants and power
plants were releasing many kilos or even tonns of this stuff into
rivers or groundwater and somebody was drinking it over long period of
time and the chromates slowly accumulated in his bones and increased
chances of bone cancer.
And, at the beginning of century people were even coloring
confectionary with "chrome yellow" toxic pigment. So Cr(VI) got bit
notorious reputation. But it is not a big deal in the case you
described.
What you should do is to dispose the washes and the spent bath
solution from electrolysis as aqueous hazardous waste contaminated
with chromium and nickel. I am sure some company would take it from
you, for a fee. You can call some company doing chrome plating or
metal etching and ask them how they dispose their waste.
There may be some regulatory bullsh*t involved, paperwork, designated
waste containers and waste-storage area, etc but I believe it is not
as difficult. If you ever get asked what kind of waste you would be
producing, make clear that it is only couple of galons of diluted
nonflamable aqueous solution containing only traces of Nickel and
Chromium and Iron salts.
Also, you can use some alloy that has no chromiun in it as the anode
for the electrolysis.
Post by hanson
Post by Hylourgos
Hi,
I'm a woodworker who would like to know more about a chemical
Electrolysis is popular among woodworkers for removing rust from old
tools. Some of us use Stainless Steel as a conductor in the process,
but one site describing the process claimed that it produces Chromium
Hexavalent, so we shouldn't do that. His site, which describes the
http://www.oldengine.org/members/billd/electrol.htm
As one woodworker noted, getting your chemical advice from
oldengine.org is a dubious endeavor, so I'm asking here in this
forum if anyone can confirm or deny the danger.
Thanks,
H
hahahahahaha.........so, the enviros scared the green shit out
of you, huh. Listen, the worst thing that is gonna happen to you
with a set up like that is that the Laundry Soda which may be
Soda ash (Na2CO3) may splash into your eyes and burn like hell
and the fumes may make you cough.
(AFAIK Arm & Hammer's Soda maybe even just Baking Soda, the
stuff they put into Alka-Seltzer)
Your worries about Chromate production is unfounded, but is typical
Brokobitch yellow green shit hype. The quantities you produce are
so minimal that you have to drink a five gallon bucket of your cleaning
juice daily for years and years until you'd get any reaction from CrO4,
long, long after you'd have died of alkalosis from the Laundry Soda.
Don't believe me, but go to any plating or metal finishing shop and
ask them how many or whether they had any CrO4 problems with
electro cleaning in the past 20, 50 or 100 years. You may find that
one totally drunken plater in the entire world during the last century
may have fallen into the tank and drowned. Otherwise: NOTHING!
What you should worry about is that you have to report that you own
and operate such an electro cleaning process, whether you use SS or
not. -- The regulators from a bunch of green shit agencies (air, sewer,
fire, enviro and safety) will descend onto you and demand permit
charges and user fees from you, that will amount to a few thousand
bucks each year, plus the cost of getting your sewer (effluent) analyzed
at least every 90 days, not to mention the disposal costs.
Enjoy your wood working and the wonders of chemistry and fuck eviros!
ahahahahaha........ahahahahanson
Michael Moroney
2004-02-04 23:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Could the hexavalent chromium be neutralized by adding some sort of
reducing agent to the solution (converting it to CrIII) ?
--
-Mike
Acid Test
2004-02-04 18:04:43 UTC
Permalink
No need to worry about chromates.
Boil away your liquid and collect the chromates.

Sodium Chromates or Potassium Chromates... whatever..or even normal
Crx0x are used by photographers,and especially developers.

It can be safely disposed of at your nearest photography shop.They
would be happy to take the waste off your hands.

Most of All...certain clandistine labs(illicit or semi-illicit drug
labs) keep chromates on hand.This waqy they can explain evaporating
trays and dipping trays to the Feds
in case they get busted.Chromates are hardly used in drug
manufacturing...

although i can say i personally have created a semi-psychedelic
substance from K2Cr2O7 with an effect at a dose of 0.1 mg.

The only thing you can't do it at a dose above 1 mg because you'll end
up with mono symptoms.Mainly not so serious canker sores around the
mouth area.

So as you can see chromates are not popular among chemists



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Eppendorf
2004-02-04 19:12:58 UTC
Permalink
What the hell is a semi-illicit drug lab? BTW, I bet that
"semi-psychedelic" potassium dicromate drug is effective only b/c the brain
tumor its giving you.
Post by Acid Test
No need to worry about chromates.
Boil away your liquid and collect the chromates.
Sodium Chromates or Potassium Chromates... whatever..or even normal
Crx0x are used by photographers,and especially developers.
It can be safely disposed of at your nearest photography shop.They
would be happy to take the waste off your hands.
Most of All...certain clandistine labs(illicit or semi-illicit drug
labs) keep chromates on hand.This waqy they can explain evaporating
trays and dipping trays to the Feds
in case they get busted.Chromates are hardly used in drug
manufacturing...
although i can say i personally have created a semi-psychedelic
substance from K2Cr2O7 with an effect at a dose of 0.1 mg.
The only thing you can't do it at a dose above 1 mg because you'll end
up with mono symptoms.Mainly not so serious canker sores around the
mouth area.
So as you can see chromates are not popular among chemists
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Repeating Rifle
2004-02-04 21:51:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Acid Test
No need to worry about chromates.
Boil away your liquid and collect the chromates.
Sodium Chromates or Potassium Chromates... whatever..or even normal
Crx0x are used by photographers,and especially developers.
It can be safely disposed of at your nearest photography shop.They
would be happy to take the waste off your hands.
This is news to me! What are chromates used for by the run of the mill
photographic developer? The main use I know of is chromated gelatin. That is
used in certain unusual printing processes and for clear holograms. There
may also be some weird toning process.

Bill
Steve Turner
2004-02-05 00:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Repeating Rifle
This is news to me! What are chromates used for by the run of the mill
photographic developer? The main use I know of is chromated gelatin. That is
used in certain unusual printing processes and for clear holograms. There
may also be some weird toning process.
Dichromates used to be used in Farmer's reducer. That is by no means
a "run of the mill" application nowadays. And I really highly doubt
that photographic processors of any type are going to accept anybody's
waste stream, regardless of content.

I would not believe anything that Acid Test has to say. (S)he has
already demonstrated ignorance of basic chemistry.

Steve Turner
Acid Test
2004-02-05 14:00:41 UTC
Permalink
Obviouslly you know nothing of chromates.

First off you can buy chromium as a mineral suppliment at health
stores.

Secondly the colour yellow in your electrolyte is not a sign of
present chromates.

K2Cr2O4 is yellow and is not a hexvalent chromate.Next Chromates range
from a variety of colours from orange to pink.This guy obviouslly
doesn't know what he is talkin about.

In regards to Turners Memo..I can only say your chemistry knowledge
seems to be far more ignorant than mine to think of H2O2 as an
oxidizer when it isn't.



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Eppendorf
2004-02-05 15:09:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Acid Test
In regards to Turners Memo..I can only say your chemistry knowledge
seems to be far more ignorant than mine to think of H2O2 as an
oxidizer when it isn't.
H2O2 is a very strong oxidizer. Don't think so? Okay, get some laboratory
grade stuff (30% or so) and pour it on your hand. Let us know how it goes.
And you never answered my question, what is a semi-illicit drug lab? This
one has really got me curious.
Steve Turner
2004-02-05 22:18:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Acid Test
In regards to Turners Memo..I can only say your chemistry knowledge
seems to be far more ignorant than mine to think of H2O2 as an
oxidizer when it isn't.
You're ignorant. Quit playing on Mommy's computer. Come back, if you
must, after you've studied chemistry at the Jr. High level.

Steve Turner
Repeating Rifle
2004-02-06 07:25:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Turner
Post by Acid Test
In regards to Turners Memo..I can only say your chemistry knowledge
seems to be far more ignorant than mine to think of H2O2 as an
oxidizer when it isn't.
You're ignorant. Quit playing on Mommy's computer. Come back, if you
must, after you've studied chemistry at the Jr. High level.
Steve Turner
Maybe that is why the Nazis lost WWII. At one time they were trying to
resurrect their U-boat fleet by using H2O2 as an oxidizer for their diesel
fuel. If it worked, they would not have to surface to recharge batteries. I
guess it didn't work because H2O2 was not an oxidizer. :-)

Bill
Steve Turner
2004-02-06 23:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Repeating Rifle
Post by Steve Turner
Post by Acid Test
In regards to Turners Memo..I can only say your chemistry knowledge
seems to be far more ignorant than mine to think of H2O2 as an
oxidizer when it isn't.
You're ignorant. Quit playing on Mommy's computer. Come back, if you
must, after you've studied chemistry at the Jr. High level.
Steve Turner
Maybe that is why the Nazis lost WWII. At one time they were trying to
resurrect their U-boat fleet by using H2O2 as an oxidizer for their diesel
fuel. If it worked, they would not have to surface to recharge batteries. I
guess it didn't work because H2O2 was not an oxidizer. :-)
Yeah ... and to think all those famous German chemists missed such an
obvious explanation. Just shameful is what it is.

Steve Turner
Mohammed Farooq
2004-02-06 15:52:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hylourgos
Hi,
I'm a woodworker who would like to know more about a chemical
Electrolysis is popular among woodworkers for removing rust from old
tools. Some of us use Stainless Steel as a conductor in the process,
but one site describing the process claimed that it produces Chromium
Hexavalent, so we shouldn't do that. His site, which describes the
http://www.oldengine.org/members/billd/electrol.htm
As one woodworker noted, getting your chemical advice from
oldengine.org is a dubious endeavor, so I'm asking here in this forum
if anyone can confirm or deny the danger.
Thanks,
According to the label on Merck potassium dichromate bottle ,(Chromium
in +6 state) bottle, inhaling the DUST of this reagent should be
avoided since it is "CARCINOGEN BY INHALATION!", Strong toxin
,mutagenic, very toxic, irritant, sensitizing, dangerous for the
environment...( Lets see what hanson has to say).
By the way we still pipet out dichromate solutions BY MOUTH, but still
we are somehow alive. Proabably its solutions are not as dangerous as
inhalation of its dust.
Does your solution turns slightly orange or yellow during the
electrolysis process indicating the presence of hexavalent chromium?
What is the original color of your solution?
Acid Test
2004-02-06 16:15:32 UTC
Permalink
When it comes to potassium or sodium/chromium containing metals there
is no heavalent chromium.

K2Cr2O7 is stable on an atomic level and does not need to form a
hexavalent bond with the molecules in the structure.

K2CO3 however is an example of a hexavalent compound



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hanson
2004-02-06 16:26:15 UTC
Permalink
\
Post by Acid Test
When it comes to potassium or sodium/chromium containing metals there
is no heavalent chromium.
K2Cr2O7 is stable on an atomic level and does not need to form a
hexavalent bond with the molecules in the structure.
K2CO3 however is an example of a hexavalent compound
.......and you too are a hexavalent compound when to take a shit!
ahahahahahaha........ahahahahanson
Repeating Rifle
2004-02-06 21:51:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Acid Test
When it comes to potassium or sodium/chromium containing metals there
is no heavalent chromium.
K2Cr2O7 is stable on an atomic level and does not need to form a
hexavalent bond with the molecules in the structure.
K2CO3 however is an example of a hexavalent compound
To my simple mind, if the formal valence of K is +1 and for O is -2. then
the Cr has a valence of +6. Who is missing something?

What do you even mean by a hexavalent compound. Please define.

Bill
Acid Test
2004-02-06 18:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Don't count on Merck Index to be 100% accurate.If you can get a hold
of a chemistry/physics handbook;this is your best option for 100%
chemical analysis

Merck states AcetylCholine to be
ethonalmethyltriammonium hydroxide

CH3CH2CH3(NH3)3OH

This is inaccurate in two ways-
1.This isn't even acetylcholine
2.AcetylCholine is(by correct chemical notation):
CH3CH2(OH)CH3(NH3)3

The REAL halfway synthesis of acetylcholine is completed by the
combination of Acetyl and Choline

OH-CH2-CH2-N-(CH3)3 +
H3C-CO-S-CoA =
H2O+H2C-CO-S-CoA + CH2-CH2-N-(CH3)3

CH2-CH2-N-(CH3)3 is used by the body for the synthesis of vitamin B6



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Acid Test
2004-02-09 14:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Maybe you could make some speed



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l***@gmail.com
2013-10-12 21:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hylourgos
Hi,
I'm a woodworker who would like to know more about a chemical
Electrolysis is popular among woodworkers for removing rust from old
tools. Some of us use Stainless Steel as a conductor in the process,
but one site describing the process claimed that it produces Chromium
Hexavalent, so we shouldn't do that. His site, which describes the
http://www.oldengine.org/members/billd/electrol.htm
As one woodworker noted, getting your chemical advice from
oldengine.org is a dubious endeavor, so I'm asking here in this forum
if anyone can confirm or deny the danger.
Thanks,
H
Interesting... I found this place while doing some research for exactly the same reason; warnings from others about hexavalent chromium production from using stainless steel as the sacrificial anode for de-rusting parts using electrolysis.

From the information provided here, I believe I will continue with my plans to experiment with the metals I use and the way they are arrayed in the solution to achieve the best results. So far, the known fact seems to be that hydrogen and oxygen are the produced gasses from the process and both are reactive to fire/ignition so we'll just vent really good and try to keep the Marlboro out of my mouth when I check on the parts.

It's worth a deeper look to find out how much, if any, hexavalent chromium is produced in the process and what effect that potential amount may have on a person. I'm not going to go overboard, but I'd like to know.

Hanson seems to have a good handle on the hoax of radical environmentalism, although the death grip he has on the truth of their conspiracy is causing his hand to sweat and grip to numb. Potentially fatal if it causes him to lose his grip on sanity as well. (Just having fun Hanson, no malice intended, I tend to get a little frothy at the mouth myself when taking it to the "artificial intelligence" crowd) Bunny humpers, tree huggers, global warmers; they all follow the same pattern of emotionalizing pseudo-facts from pseudo-scientists with agendas (PROFIT$$$$ as noted by Hanson being the most popular with POWER TRIPPING being a close second, I could be wrong on the order). They can't see the renewable forest growing behind the tree they chain themselves to so the logger won't cut it down. They're really just a whole separate class of EMO I believe....Note to self: investigate that topic Hahahaha.

Thanks for the distraction.
r***@gmail.com
2019-07-23 15:38:06 UTC
Permalink
What is the cheapest iron compound that i can add to my drinking water in order to reduce the Cr6, say from 100ppb to 0ppb.
How should I do it by electrolysis?

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