What is in ditto fluid?

[Mxsmanic]

Can anyone tell me what the ingredients were in the solvent used by
spirit duplicating machines in the 1960s? Anyone around schools at
the time will remember the hypnotic odor of that fluid on
freshly-printed ditto sheets, but what exactly was in it? Was it
toxic? At some point after the Sixties, the formulation apparently
changed, and it didn't smell nearly as nice. I'd be very interested
to learn exactly what it was in that solvent that made it so pleasant
to smell.

Early photocopiers (with liquid toner) had quite a fascinating smell,
too, along with extremely heavy paper with a distinctive slick finish,
and I'd like to know what solvent was used there, too (I've heard that
it was closely related to kerosene). But ditto paper smelled ten
times better, and the exact composition of ditto fluid has been an
aggravating mystery to me for many years.

[Ron Jones]

Post by Mxsmanic
Can anyone tell me what the ingredients were in the solvent used by
spirit duplicating machines in the 1960s? Anyone around schools at
the time will remember the hypnotic odor of that fluid on
freshly-printed ditto sheets, but what exactly was in it? Was it
toxic? At some point after the Sixties, the formulation apparently
changed, and it didn't smell nearly as nice. I'd be very interested
to learn exactly what it was in that solvent that made it so pleasant
to smell.
Early photocopiers (with liquid toner) had quite a fascinating smell,
too, along with extremely heavy paper with a distinctive slick finish,
and I'd like to know what solvent was used there, too (I've heard that
it was closely related to kerosene). But ditto paper smelled ten
times better, and the exact composition of ditto fluid has been an
aggravating mystery to me for many years.

Search for "spirit duplicator fluid"....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_duplicator says 50:50 IPA:methanol,
possibly ethanol might have been used originally, but a 50:50 ethanol:IPA
might tempt someone to drink it.

[Mxsmanic]

Post by Ron Jones
Search for "spirit duplicator fluid"....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_duplicator says 50:50 IPA:methanol,
possibly ethanol might have been used originally, but a 50:50 ethanol:IPA
might tempt someone to drink it.

The stuff I remember didn't smell anything like IPA or
ethanol/methanol. It was closer to the smell of modern whiteboard
markers (xylene?) from what I remember.

I also wonder to what extent the ink contributed to the smell, since
the parts of a sheet that had the strongest smell were those that had
ink on them. Wasn't the ink some sort of wax?

[Ron Jones]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Ron Jones
Search for "spirit duplicator fluid"....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_duplicator says 50:50
IPA:methanol, possibly ethanol might have been used originally, but
a 50:50 ethanol:IPA might tempt someone to drink it.

The stuff I remember didn't smell anything like IPA or
ethanol/methanol. It was closer to the smell of modern whiteboard
markers (xylene?) from what I remember.
I also wonder to what extent the ink contributed to the smell, since
the parts of a sheet that had the strongest smell were those that had
ink on them. Wasn't the ink some sort of wax?

The ink has a wax base, so it can be transferred from the original to the
piece that fits the drum (otherwise it would be reversed!)
Maybe it's maker dependant. They were called Banda copiers over here, and
the smell was certainly alcoholic... (early 60s)

[donald haarmann]

"Mxsmanic" <***@gmail.com
| The stuff I remember didn't smell anything like IPA or
| ethanol/methanol. It was closer to the smell of modern whiteboard
| markers (xylene?) from what I remember.
|
| I also wonder to what extent the ink contributed to the smell, since
| the parts of a sheet that had the strongest smell were those that had
| ink on them. Wasn't the ink some sort of wax?
|
|


--------
The correction fluid for mimeograph stencils smelled strongly of ether (sulphuric/ethyl).

[Mxsmanic]

Post by donald haarmann
The correction fluid for mimeograph stencils smelled strongly
of ether (sulphuric/ethyl).

Diethyl ether has a wonderful smell, although it's toxic. But it
doesn't smell quite like the ditto fluid I remember (which presumably
and hopefully was not toxic).

[Malcolm Manners]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by donald haarmann
The correction fluid for mimeograph stencils smelled strongly
of ether (sulphuric/ethyl).

Diethyl ether has a wonderful smell, although it's toxic. But it
doesn't smell quite like the ditto fluid I remember (which presumably
and hopefully was not toxic).

As I recall, the fragrance was delightful and somewhat fruity, although
not any specific fruit I could identify. I've always assumed it
contained one or more esters of some sort. I do have to wonder if
methanol or diethyl ether could be the source, since it didn't smell
like either of them to me, and the fact that the smell lingered so long
in a single sheet of paper -- whatever the source of the smell was, it
must not have been very volatile.

[Mxsmanic]

Post by Malcolm Manners
As I recall, the fragrance was delightful and somewhat fruity, although
not any specific fruit I could identify. I've always assumed it
contained one or more esters of some sort. I do have to wonder if
methanol or diethyl ether could be the source, since it didn't smell
like either of them to me, and the fact that the smell lingered so long
in a single sheet of paper -- whatever the source of the smell was, it
must not have been very volatile.

Yes, and the fact that the printed portions had more of a smell also
implied that the combination of solvent and ink might have produced
the smell, or perhaps the ink held the volatile solvent and released
it more slowly. It was a long time ago and chemistry was not a high
priority for me at the time.

[John Savage]

Post by Mxsmanic
The stuff I remember didn't smell anything like IPA or
ethanol/methanol. It was closer to the smell of modern whiteboard
markers (xylene?) from what I remember.
I also wonder to what extent the ink contributed to the smell, since
the parts of a sheet that had the strongest smell were those that had
ink on them. Wasn't the ink some sort of wax?

The ditto copiers that I used downunder used methylated spirits as the
solvent, but the OP is asking specifically about those in the '60s and
I wasn't involved with them until the '80s. The process concerned a very
simple and robust machine that first wiped each blank sheet with some
alcohol then pressed it against the master. The master was prepared by
pressing glossy writing paper against a sheet of coloured wax, the most
popular colour being purple. Many other colours were available, but none
so vivid and durable as that purple. The wax has no odour. It was always
a concern to me how the first thing most kids would do when handed a
dittoed sheet was to press it up against their face and inhale deeply!
In those days smoking was still allowed on government premises, and I
wonder how many fires were started by teachers smoking while performing
their class duplicating tasks.

Today's whiteboard markers are quite odourless here. The early makes
had a sickly sweet "confectionary" smell, use of which would soon give
me a headache. And they dried out too quickly.

[fkasner]

Post by Mxsmanic
Can anyone tell me what the ingredients were in the solvent used by
spirit duplicating machines in the 1960s? Anyone around schools at
the time will remember the hypnotic odor of that fluid on
freshly-printed ditto sheets, but what exactly was in it? Was it
toxic? At some point after the Sixties, the formulation apparently
changed, and it didn't smell nearly as nice. I'd be very interested
to learn exactly what it was in that solvent that made it so pleasant
to smell.
Early photocopiers (with liquid toner) had quite a fascinating smell,
too, along with extremely heavy paper with a distinctive slick finish,
and I'd like to know what solvent was used there, too (I've heard that
it was closely related to kerosene). But ditto paper smelled ten
times better, and the exact composition of ditto fluid has been an
aggravating mystery to me for many years.

They frequently perfumed it but it was methanol. The cans of it were
marked as such with all the supplies we used to use in the chem
department office. When we once had a late delivery of fluid and needed
a rush job for an exam we substituted methanol quite nicely for the
stuff. Luckily the office was a very large room plus two smaller offices
attached and nobody ever had any indication of methanol poisoning from
the not too frequent use of the dangerous substance.
FK

[Mxsmanic]

Post by fkasner
They frequently perfumed it but it was methanol.

What were the ingredients of the perfume??

Speaking of fascinating fragrances, I'm reminded of the shampoo that
was popular in the 1970s in the U.S., "Gee You're Hair Smells
Terrific." It is still made for a few markets, but apparently not in
the U.S. It really did smell almost hypnotically terrific, but that
was its only merit, and apparently that didn't suffice.

[beav]

Post by Mxsmanic
Can anyone tell me what the ingredients were in the solvent used by
spirit duplicating machines in the 1960s? Anyone around schools at
the time will remember the hypnotic odor of that fluid on
freshly-printed ditto sheets, but what exactly was in it? Was it
toxic? At some point after the Sixties, the formulation apparently
changed, and it didn't smell nearly as nice. I'd be very interested
to learn exactly what it was in that solvent that made it so pleasant
to smell.
Early photocopiers (with liquid toner) had quite a fascinating smell,
too, along with extremely heavy paper with a distinctive slick finish,
and I'd like to know what solvent was used there, too (I've heard that
it was closely related to kerosene). But ditto paper smelled ten
times better, and the exact composition of ditto fluid has been an
aggravating mystery to me for many years.

perchloroethylene, if i recall correctly...

huffing at the grade school level.... tsk tsk.... how things
change..


no google?

[Mxsmanic]

Post by beav
perchloroethylene, if i recall correctly...

I don't know what that smells like. Does anything else contain it?

Post by beav
huffing at the grade school level.... tsk tsk.... how things
change..

It had nothing to do with substance abuse. The ditto sheets smelled
great, but as far as I know they never produced any type of "high."

Post by beav
no google?

I've googled all over the place and I can't find an actual list of
ingredients, only comments by others that they liked the smell, too.

[donald haarmann]

"Mxsmanic" <***@gmail.com

| beav writes:
|
| > perchloroethylene, if i recall correctly...
|
| I don't know what that smells like. Does anything else contain it?


----------
Like the dry-cleaners used to smell.
--
donald j haarmann
---------------------------------
The explosion removed the windows,
the door and most of the chimney.

It was the sort of thing you expected in
the Street of Alchemists. The neighbours
preferred explosions, which were at least
identifiable and soon over. They were better
than the smells, which crept up on you.
Terry Pratchett

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

Post by donald haarmann
|
| > perchloroethylene, if i recall correctly...
|
| I don't know what that smells like. Does anything else contain it?
----------
Like the dry-cleaners used to smell.

WD40 is great!

[Mxsmanic]

Post by donald haarmann
Like the dry-cleaners used to smell.

I don't recall dry-cleaners having a smell.

[donald haarmann]

"Mxsmanic" <***@gmail.com

| donald haarmann writes:
|
| > Like the dry-cleaners used to smell.
|
| I don't recall dry-cleaners having a smell.
|
| --
|


--------
That why I said "used to" Perc has been/is being banned in many
locations, and or more efficient machines that don't bleed Perc into
the atmosphere are now in use.

[Dr_Dickie]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by donald haarmann
Like the dry-cleaners used to smell.

I don't recall dry-cleaners having a smell.
--

Depends on how hard they have been working and whether or not they use
deodorant.
Also, genetics plays the usual role.

[Borked Pseudo Mailed]

Post by Mxsmanic
Can anyone tell me what the ingredients were in the solvent used by
spirit duplicating machines in the 1960s?

It's not on their history page, but maybe someone at Gestetner
http://www.gestetnerusa.com/ will know?

Gestetner was one of the companies that made those duplicators
("ditto machines") as well as wet process photocopiers.

Maybe you can find vintage ditto fluid on eBay and e-mail the
seller to find out what's on the label?